Q&A: Is a Vegan Diet the Only Moral Choice for a Christian Today?

<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 height="100%"><tr> <td valign="top" width=168 BGCOLOR="#000000" TEXT="#F7F7FF" background="129a11c3.png"> <div> <A HREF="index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Welcome to the Heart4God Website!"><U><B><IMG SRC="4b55a500.png" border=0 width="90" height="80" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id2.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The Writings of Joseph Herrin"><U><B>Writings by Date</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id212.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The Writings of Joseph Herrin Organized "><U><B>Writings by Topic</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="http://www.heart4god.ws/Audio/index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://www.heart4god.ws/Audio/index.htm"><U><B>Audio Files</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id690.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Videos"><U><B>Videos</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id323.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Writings of Others"><U><B>Other Authors</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id324.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Links"><U><B>Links</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id339.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Questions and Answers"><U><B>Q&A</B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id328.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Heart4God Email List"><U><B>Heart4God E-mail List</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com"><U><B>Parables Blog</B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id306.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="File Downloads"><U><B><IMG SRC="2b264140.png" border=0 width="100" height="20" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></B></U></A></div> <bR> </td> <td valign="top" BGCOLOR="#000000" TEXT="#F7F7FF"> <bR> <div> <B>Q&A: Is a Vegan Diet the Only Moral Choice for a Christian Today?</B></div> <div> <IMG SRC="c2827160.png" border=0 width="807" height="22" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></div> <bR> <div> Dear J., </div> <bR> <div> I have read a good bit of the material on your website, and I can see how easy it is to become thoroughly appalled with the corruption that is taking place in the food industry today. When the Scriptures speak of the original transgression of Satan, it says that "by the abundance of your trade you defiled your sanctuaries." Whenever there is an abundance of trade, there is the potential for many transgressions to occur resulting in great defilement. This is certainly true in the food industry, and you have done a good job of pointing out many of these abuses. </div> <bR> <div> I was appalled at some of the things I read about: featherless chickens, genetically engineered chickens whose breasts are so big that they cannot stand up, tomatoes altered with polio vaccines, terminator strains of vegetables, hormone and vaccine injected animals, herbivores such as cows being fed animal protein, and the list goes on and on. These things are truly incredible and they do represent a corruption of the food that the world feeds upon. </div> <bR> <div> In the last couple of years you have immersed yourself in studying all of the corruption and uncleanness of the food industry, as is represented in the numerous books that are recommended on your site. One thing that commonly occurs when we focus on the ills of a particular issue, is that we have a tendency to develop a revulsion that is so strong that we reject even those things that are not corrupt uses of the things that God has provided for man to use and derive benefit from.  </div> <bR> <div> J., you have immersed yourself in studying the abuses of the food system, with particular focus upon eating meat, and it has become a detestable thing to you. You are motivated to spare others from these same ills that you have read about and encountered, and this is a very good thing. Yet as saints we are not to place judgments upon others that go beyond the judgment of God. God is our judge, and we should not add to His judgment by exceeding Him in condemning certain actions or behavior. Those who do so end up violating what Paul wrote to the Colossian saints. </div> <bR> <div> Colossians 2:16-23<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> 16 <I><B>Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.</B></I> 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. 20 <I><B>If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" 22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use) -- in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. </B></I></div> <bR> <div> Paul says that these decrees such as "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch" are "In accordance with the teachings of men" and they have "the appearance of wisdom". Such commandments and teachings have the appearance of wisdom, but Paul begins this passage by stating, "No one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink." </div> <bR> <div> I am sure that many of those in Paul's days who were placing prohibitions upon the saints concerning what they ate and drank also did so from what were good motives, but they found no approval by the apostles, and the saints were exhorted to not let anyone defraud them by acting as their judge in these matters. This is true today. </div> <bR> <div> In your own revulsion against the corruption you have observed, you cannot imagine how you could possibly eat meat in any form and have a clear conscience. Yet, because your conscience will not allow you to eat meat, you must not place this same restriction upon others, nor must you depict the actions of others as being immoral and sinful. I know that you have assured me that you are not condemning the actions of others who should choose to eat meat, yet I would like to contrast/compare some of your statements, for I am seeing a duality to your words, and this duality is what keeps me from being able to endorse your writings. </div> <div> ----------------------------------------------- </div> <div> You wrote: </div> <div> Therefore, I do not and I have not <I>condemed</I> meat eating, or anyone who eats meat anywhere my writings or in the web site. </div> <bR> <div> In none of the books I have read, have I ever read any outright "condemnation" of meat eating or milk drinking. </div> <bR> <div> I understand that Yeshua was not a vegan. I never claim that He ate a vegan diet, nor can I see that I have condemned Yeshua, his disciples anywhere, ever. </div> <bR> <div> I am not forbidding anyone from eating anything they want to eat, nor am I relating what anyone eats to any religious purpose or spiritual significance.</div> <div> First of all, I have not “condemned” anything. However...<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> Lastly, I have not described the act of <I>meat eating</I> to be particularly “cruel”, but...<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> Eating (whatever) is not a spiritual “sin”, but...<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> All of the above are quotes taken from your letter to me, or from articles you wrote on your website. You make these statements about not condemning such practices, but you are having great difficulty in actually saying such things in an unqualified manner. With every statement that eating meat is not cruel or immoral, there is a counter statement where you make an argument that states that it actually is cruel and immoral. Following are some of your arguments for its cruelty and immorality: </div> <bR> <div> You might be surprised that there is at least one scriptural reference to this, and it uses the word cruel. (Ecclesiates 9:1) </div> <bR> <div> Usually the bottom line that dictates how animals become food is money. Money is an idol, too, and the love of money is idolatry. In fact, as you know, the "love of money is the root of all kinds of evil." Evil is evil. "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil..." </div> <bR> <div> This chapter deals with the difficulties some people have with the teaching of this book, which is simply that <I><B>a plant based diet is most consistent with</B></I> personal health, <I><B>compassionate dominion</B></I> and responsible stewardship of the rest of the creation. <I><B>I believe that it is also most consistent with God’s perfect will.</B></I><FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> Eating (whatever) is not a spiritual “sin”, but it can make one sick indeed, and <I><B>Paul calls that a “sin against the body...”</B></I><FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> I have some questions for you: <I><B>Do animals feel pain when we slaughter them? Are they not harmed? Are their lives not destroyed?</B></I> In Matthew 6 Jesus tell us that the Father is concerned about the death of a sparrow! I believe that he is also concerned about all animal life.<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> <I><B>Yahweh no more instituted cruelty than he instituted sin...</B></I></div> <bR> <div> People of the world today lust for flesh just as the Israelites did—perhaps even more than the Israelites.</div> <bR> <div> Yes, Yahweh gave the Israelites meat when they demanded it, and for us he has expanded the diet to include whatever people could possible want. Anything and everything is permissible: even dog meat, tiger meat, pig meat, skunk meat, vulture meat, monkey meat, you name it! I believe that God’s anger, his wrath, is also greatly kindled against us. I believe He is fed up with our gluttony and our lust for flesh at the expense to our health, at the expense of the animals, at the expense of the earth, at the expense of our neighbors who are starving around the world. Just as He did with the Israelites, He is permitting us to eat meat until it make us sick, indeed until we are smote with a very great plague and the people that lusted are buried! </div> <div> ---------------------------------- </div> <bR> <div> You begin by making many assurances that you are not condemning eating meat, but then you add your "but" and "however" and you talk about why it actually is immoral. You say it is immoral due to its cruelty, for there is a Scripture that talks about fish being caught in "cruel nets". If this is proof of cruelty and cruelty is immoral, then how do you explain Yahshua instructing His disciples to cast their nets into the sea on numerous occasions and to bring in a large haul of fish. It is quite evident that you are misinterpreting the context and intent of this isolated Scripture to bolster your argument that eating meat is cruel and immoral. The Scripture you quote is not a teaching on eating meat, or on the permissible methods of obtaining this meat. The Scripture I have quoted above from Colossians 2 is written to address this matter, but you choose to disregard what it says. </div> <bR> <div> You ask whether an animal "feels pain when it is slaughtered? Are they not harmed? Are their lives not destroyed?" You are using this also as an argument that eating meat is cruel and therefore immoral. Yet God's word does not state that slaughtering an animal to eat it is cruel or immoral. In these arguments and many others you are ADDING to the word of God. You are declaring something sinful that God has not declared sinful. </div> <bR> <div> You also then describe a desire for eating meat as "a lust for meat". It is true that men can lust for meat, yet not all desire for meat is lust, nor is it all to be condemned. It is the same as man's desire for sex. There is a proper realm for satisfying the sexual desires that are a part of our beings, yet there is also a lust that leads to great abuses. In our society today it is evident that the desire for sex has become greatly corrupted, and it has led to many abuses, sins and great harm. The result is seen in sickness and disease and even in the murder of innocent babies. There are great parallels between this matter of sexual desires and the food we eat. </div> <bR> <div> Are we to conclude that all sex everywhere should be avoided and abstained from due to the horrendous abuses we see everywhere about us. There are some who have been greatly hurt by sexual abuse and who have come to view all intimacy between a man and a woman as evil and sinful. They believe that it is degrading and immoral and should be avoided by one and all. Yet this too goes BEYOND what God has said. </div> <bR> <div> Your attitude toward eating meat is a direct parallel to those who have viewed the abuses of sex and who have concluded that it is immoral and to be completely avoided. </div> <bR> <div> In your book you wrote: </div> <bR> <div> In Paul’s day, there was no such thing as a secular slaughter. Verse 20 shows that all meat was either sacrificed to God or to demons, and those people who eat the meat are participants in the sacrifice. If you eat meat today, you are participating in the mass execution and slaughter of animals. In other words all that goes on in their lives and death. Most meat today is sacrificed on the altar of commercial profit, a process in which the lives of animals are cheapened or devalued into cheap commodities in order to maximize profits.<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <bR> <div> This seems to be one of the main arguments upon which you condemn the eating of meat. You have repeated this argument in numerous places throughout your writings. You are making a reference to the following Scripture: </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 10:20<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. </div> <bR> <div> You state that in Paul's days there was no such thing as a secular slaughter. Where do you find evidence to make such a statement? You have offered no support, no evidence for such a sweeping statement. It is plain from Paul's words that there was secular slaughter. </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 10:27-28<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake...</div> <bR> <div> If all meat were sacrificed to idols, then why would there be a need for someone to inform another that a particular piece of meat was sacrificed to an idol? It is evident that some was offered to idols and some was not. Some meat sold in the market was offered to idols and some was not. Even among the Jews not everything that constituted meat was dedicated. Fishermen did not dedicate everything they caught. Some took it straight from the net and put it over the fire. </div> <bR> <div> Even if it was all sacrificed to idols, this does not make it unclean. Paul's prohibition against eating the meat had nothing to do with it defiling the person who was eating it. It was based completely upon not offending the person whose conscience was weak. </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 10:29-31<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. </div> <bR> <div> The freedom of the saints is not to be judged by another person's conscience. You are laying a judgment upon others based upon your own conscience.</div> <bR> <div> The conclusion of these words of mine is this: Yes there is great wrong, even immoral and cruel things being done in the food industry. Yet not all eating of meat is cruel and immoral, or even unhealthy. When comparing this to the issue I have mentioned sexual relations it should be obvious that there are clear parallels here. Yes, there is great immorality in sexual realms today, but the solution is not to say that all sex should be avoided. There is a righteous and sanctified realm where these things are blessed by God. The same is true of eating meat. </div> <bR> <div> As a teacher to the saints I am called to instruct them in the way of righteousness. This means that I may tell them the things that God has clearly condemned: fornication, adultery, homosexuality, pedophilia, incest, etc.. But I would err if I taught them that all sexual relations between a husband and wife were to be abstained from. </div> <bR> <div> In the same way I can instruct them that eating blood is forbidden, as is eating anything that would set a stumbling block in front of a brother who has a weaker conscience in some matter. For example, if I knew that a brother had a problem with drinking, then I would be held accountable if I told him it was okay to go to bars and I took him to one and he became drunk and fell into sin. I would do better to not exercise my freedom for the sake of the brother. However, I cannot condemn that which God does not condemn. I cannot tell the saints that eating meat that is properly raised, slaughtered and processed is cruel, immoral, or even unhealthy. It is sanctified by the word of God and by prayer. </div> <bR> <div> There is much you could do to assist the body to discern the difference between what is properly raised and prepared for human consumption based upon a sound Scriptural perspective, and what is not. It is my earnest desire that you would not go beyond what the Scriptures state. </div> <bR> <div> May you be blessed with peace and unerstanding in these days, </div> <bR> <div> Joseph </div> <bR> <div> E-mail: </div> <div> website: <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Georgia" ><A HREF="http://heart4god.ws" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://heart4god.ws"><U><U>http://heart4god.ws</U></U></A></FONT></div> <bR> <bR> <bR> </td> </tr></table></body>