Q&A: What is the Significance of the Order that the Five-fold Ministries Are Listed In?

<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 height="100%"><tr> <td valign="top" width=168 BGCOLOR="#000000" TEXT="#F7F7FF" background="129a11c3.png"> <div> <A HREF="index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Welcome to the Heart4God Website!"><U><B><IMG SRC="4b55a500.png" border=0 width="90" height="80" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id2.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The Writings of Joseph Herrin"><U><B>Writings by Date</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id212.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The Writings of Joseph Herrin Organized "><U><B>Writings by Topic</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="http://www.heart4god.ws/Audio/index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://www.heart4god.ws/Audio/index.htm"><U><B>Audio Files</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id690.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Videos"><U><B>Videos</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id323.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Writings of Others"><U><B>Other Authors</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id324.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Links"><U><B>Links</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id339.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Questions and Answers"><U><B>Q&A</B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id328.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Heart4God Email List"><U><B>Heart4God E-mail List</B></U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com"><U><B>Parables Blog</B></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="id306.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="File Downloads"><U><B><IMG SRC="2b264140.png" border=0 width="100" height="20" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></B></U></A></div> <bR> </td> <td valign="top" BGCOLOR="#000000" TEXT="#F7F7FF"> <bR> <div> <B>Q&A: What is the Significance of the Order that the Five-fold Ministries Are Listed In?</B></div> <div> <IMG SRC="c2827160.png" border=0 width="807" height="22" ALIGN="BOTTOM" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></div> <bR> <div> Dear R., </div> <bR> <div> You asked: </div> <bR> <div> In the 5 Fold, the gifted men given to the church in regards to Spiritual Authority...is it true that Apostles are first in order followed by Prophets, as they are foundational leaders, then Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers? And if this is not true-are all 5 equal in Spiritual Authority if all are present? How did they function together?</div> <bR> <div> You know the scripture in Ephesians 4 that states: </div> <bR> <div> Ephesians 4:11-12<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, </div> <div> 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ...</div> <bR> <div> Young's Literal Translation renders it this way: </div> <div> <TABLE BORDER="0" CELLPADDING="1" CELLSPACING="1" WIDTH="565" BORDERCOLORLIGHT="#C0C0C0" BORDERCOLORDARK="#808080" FRAME="VOID" RULES="NONE" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" > <tR> <tD VALIGN=TOP HEIGHT= 62 ><NOBR><div>  <A NAME="v11"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="1x1.gif" HEIGHT="1" ALIGN="bottom" WIDTH="1" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" ></A></div> <div> 11</div> <bR> </NOBR></tD> <tD VALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="545"><div> and He gave some <I>as</I> apostles, and some <I>as</I> prophets, and some <I>as </I>proclaimers of good news, and some <I>as</I> shepherds and teachers...</div> <bR> </tD> </tR> </TABLE></div> <div> My own feeling, had not I heard everyone referring to this as the "five-fold" ministry, would be that this is actually speaking of FOUR distinct ministries and that shepherd and teacher were one, not two, ministries. I don't know that this is a very important distinction, but it is how I would have interpreted what Paul is saying. One reason I would make this conclusion is due to the way the verse is phrased and pastor and teacher, or shepherd and teacher, are lumped together. Another reason is due to the following verse to the Corinthian church: </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 12:27-28<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> 27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. </div> <div> 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. </div> <bR> <div> You will note that this scripture begins the same way, but it leaves out the evangelist. I think perhaps that this is due to the fact that one doesn't evangelize the church, one evangelizes the lost. The evangelist's realm of work is largely OUTSIDE the body, and here Paul is stating that "God has appointed IN the church." </div> <bR> <div> But note also that shepherd or pastor is not mentioned. I think that this is because the teachers mentioned are the same as the pastors. In mentioning teachers, Paul is also speaking of the pastors for they are one and the same ministry. It would be hard to imagine a pastor that didn't teach. </div> <bR> <div> This latter scripture does seem to establish some type of order, for it uses the words "first", "second", "third". We must determine what the order refers to. We can clearly see that it referes back to the word "appointed". Christ has appointed first, second, third, etc.. The word for appointed in the Greek is "didomi" and it is most often rendered as "give" or "given". Christ has GIVEN to the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, etc.. </div> <bR> <div> We are then led to ask, "Did He give them first in appearance, or first in function, or first in preeminence, or first in authority? What does the order refer to?" </div> <bR> <div> I don't think it refers to authority, for this line of thinking would seem to break down after teachers. What authority do workers of miracles, or healing, or helps, or tongues have? I don't think we could say that this is a list of authority. Would the person with the gift of helps tell the person with the gift of tongues that they must submit to them because they had a better gift? </div> <div> I think we can answer what this order refers to by looking at what Paul says next. </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 12:29-31<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? </div> <div> 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? </div> <div> 31 <I><B>But earnestly desire the greater gifts.</B></I> </div> <bR> <div> Paul is telling the saints in Corinth to desire the gifts that have the greatest potential for edifying and building up the body, and I believe this is the order he has listed the gifts in. Note that apostle and prophet are listed first, and tongues are listed last. Compare this to the following words: </div> <bR> <div> I Corinthians 14:5<FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#FFFFCC" FACE="Georgia" > </FONT></div> <div> Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. </div> <bR> <div> Paul again is using the word greater when referring to the gifts, and prophecy is greater because it has a greater potential to edify the body than does tongues. What Paul has in sight in all of this is building up the church and the gifts that have the greatest potential to build it up. This again explains why the ministry of evangelist is missing from the list. Once a person is a saint, they do not need to be evangelized again. Evangelism corresponds to birthing, but Paul has in mind the church going on to maturity. </div> <bR> <div> The above scripture from I Corinthians 12 is the one that most people use to say that there is a hierarchy of authority among apostles, prophets and teachers, but an accurate understanding of this scripture reveals that it is not speaking of authority at all, but of the potential to build up the church. </div> <div> Both Ephesians 4 and I Corinthians 12 state that Christ has given these ministries or gifts to the church. As Christ has given them, they should be submitted to Christ in their function. The apostle should be led by Christ, as should the prophet, evangelist, and pastor/teacher. Each one is given a measure of authority and they should submit to the Spirit's anointing in one another. The Spirit will keep all things harmonious. </div> <bR> <div> In answer to the question, "How did they all work together", I would have to answer, "according to the leading of the Spirit." All of these ministers are to be Spirit filled, and the Spirit will coordinate them all as they work together. </div> <bR> <div> You asked about my own calling. I have never seen myself as a pastor/teacher. I believe my calling to be that of a prophet to the body, for the Father has often used me to deal with foundational issues in the body, and often for reproof and correction. I certainly do teach, but so do apostles, and so must prophets. If the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, it is not speaking of the prophets that go around giving words of knowledge to people. This does not lay a foundation. The prophet that lays a foundation is the one who stands in God's presence and gets His mind and then relates it to the church. This could be in way of instruction, or correction, or even reproof. </div> <bR> <div> This is my understanding of the call on my life, but the Father may give me a different understanding at some future time. </div> <bR> <div> I hope this is helpful. </div> <bR> <div> May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days, </div> <bR> <div> Joseph Herrin</div> <bR> <div> E-mail: </div> <div> website: <FONT SIZE="3" COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Georgia" ><A HREF="http://heart4god.ws" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://heart4god.ws"><U><U>http://heart4god.ws</U></U></A></FONT></div> <bR> <bR> </td> </tr></table></body>